Hadith Discussion - Part I

Sahih International

In the name of Allah , the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful.

al-Quran[1:1]

Hi there again everyone! It's been a while since my last post. Now I'm back with a portion of discussion that I copied from Facebook about the Sahih Hadith. The discussion is in mix, non-standard, Malay-English languages. The full discussion is available upon request in the comment section below. Today post is to discuss the said discussion or in another words; 

The Discussion of Hadith Discussion

First and foremost, the Hadith Discussion. I'll summarize it just after the images;

The discussion starts with an apology from the original poster(OP). The OP apologized for deleting the post that is view-able to friends and bring the discussion into Private Messaging(PM). The reason for deleting the original post as he said it is off topic. That is acceptable, but as far as I'm concern, bringing the discussion into a PM rather than a new post is quite questionable.Why need the discussion of world renown books be discuss in private? Are Malaysians or the Malaysian Government takes discussion of scholars as an act of terrorism?

Continuing the discussion is the mentioning of the OP on me not agreeing with "panjang umur"="umur berkat" which can be translated as "long live"="blessed living". The OP explained that it is not literally the same but just for symbolic purpose of prayer. No more argument needed as it is true that whatever the reciter of the prayer intended is more significant than the actual prayer itself.

The next issue discussed is the main issue which is the Quran and the hadith. The OP said that Muslim need to hold on to both. He questioned about if not for hadith, we muslim can't possibly know how to worship god because it is not mentioned in the Quran on how to bow and prostrate and etc. 

He also mentioned that I have mentioned before that we Muslims should follow Allah and the Messengers and the Books. But what I really said was a quotation from the Quran that is;

O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best and best in result.
[4:59]

The key word there is obey, not follow. The OP misquoted me but since it's not much of a deal, I just let him. The OP continues still by saying that the hadith is from the sunnah of Rasulullah or the practices of the Messenger. It's from the rasul. He also mentioned that it is the prophet's will that he leaves behind the Quran and the sunnah. And the OP said that to know these said sunnah is through hadith, and to learn the hadith is to learn with care, the knowledge is expansive, and to tafsir(comment) the quran, we need teachers, references from the experts. The OP continues by saying that just by reading the translation is not enough. He also commented that he didn't mean to imply that reading the translation is not good,  but to comment the Quran, we need teachers, our mind is limited. And the OP end his turn by asking me to throw away my ego.

Before I discuss on my replies, I would like to point out several accusation that had been allegedly made to me by the OP. First, he accused me of saying something that I did not said. Whether he purposely did that, or he was programmed to treat people that questioned the hadith as such. Secondly, he accused the hadith is from the sunnah of rasulullah. Is the OP really serious with that statement? The hadith is the words of hearsays to hearsays of what the prophet says. The hadith is not the sunnah. It may contain the sunnah but it also may not contain the sunnah. Where is the sunnah? It'll be explain later on.Another accusation that has been thrown out but subtly by the OP is that I am not learned(stupid). Refer to the part where he said that to comment the Quran, we need teachers and references from the experts. Did I not have any teachers and expert references? I already got an Engineering Degree, I know how to seek references, obviously. The almost last accusation is about the human mind being limited. Where the fact and references in that? I do agree that it is limited(we're not god!), but to what degree? Lastly and more obviously, he implied that I'm egoistic. How be?

The reply from me goes like this;

The Quran already point out on how to bow and prostrate etc. So, there should be none problem there. Allah(GOD) never once in the Quran told us to follow the hadith. Unless otherwise stated in the Quran that I did not know. There is a huge gap of differences of hadith and sunnah. And to comment on the hadith is to comment the context of the condition and intention of the persons involved in the scenario - which is impossible to do. For Allah has already decreed that the quran is complete. Have the OP been keeping an open mind? I did not want to make this an issue more than the OP does, but Allah told us to relay what is "haqq", truth. Any deviation needed to be diminished. Have it ever occurred in the mind of the OP that why Muhammad is the last and final Messenger? The last verse sent down is, "..This day I have perfected for you your religion ...". The religion is already perfect. Did the OP not see the corruption in the hadith? If the OP truly believes in the Quran, read the multi-lingual-translationed Quran. Read it word for word. The OP ought to be suprised by how far have our religion deviated from the original teaching of the Quran. I apologize if I had made the OP feels uneasy, but I will never pull back my words unless someone could give me an unbiased fact and the most unbiased is the Quran.

Then I made an allegation that the hadith is similar to the Bible in a way. People hearing from hearsays that the rasul says.. I asked whether the OP is rational. Even the discussion between two people can spawn many understandings, what about the discussion between two people decades ago? If the OP can't give verses in the Quran, display for me the book of Muhammad. Is there any? For all that you and I know, the book of Muhammad is the Quran, right? Please keep an open mind and try to think about it. Salam(peace).

The discussion continues with a third person that is a friend of the OP which I think, having the same stands and point of view(POV) as the OP. The discussion continues in another post, In syaa Allāh إن شاء الله‎. . Till then, salam.